09.10.08 Babacar Gaye (MONUC): The debate is that of the will of the signatories to respect the Goma Acts of Engagement
INTERVIEW
Hostilities have broken out between the FARDC and the CNDP in the east. Can you confirm this?
Yes,
and it should be completely deplored – it was already denounced by the
Special Representative of the UN Secretary General in the DRC and by
several members of the international community.
Since late
August, after a very positive meeting of the Peace and Security
Commission, the confrontations between the FARDC and the CNDP broke out
again in Rutshuru.
It is not an exaggeration to say that these
confrontations extended unfortunately to other parts of the Kivus;
initially to Nyanzale, where MONUC had to use force to help to restore
the FARDC to their positions, then later in Numbi in the northern part
of South Kivu.
I would like to confirm that this Monday MONUC
visited Numbi by helicopter, and it is under the control of the FARDC.
The FARDC had some losses there, and at present I have a report that
lists four soldiers missing, two killed and some casualties.
Thus we had a tense situation which was transformed into confrontation. That is the situation.
Before
continuing, General, we will follow the words of Minister of the
Interior Denis Kalume, who is in Goma today. He invited MONUC to impose
the peace by applying chapter VII of the United Nations Charter:
“The
Cabinet thus asks MONUC to tackle any misunderstanding and to play its
part fully, to observe, to denounce and to protect the population by
applying and implementing Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter, by
imposing peace through force in relation to the CNDP which refuses
peace for the profit of war.”
General what is your
reaction to the words of Minister Kalume? Does MONUC play an ambiguous
role by not sufficiently applying Chapter VII in the theatre of
operations in North and South Kivu?
This speech of
Minister Kalume is very important. I think that there are no
ambiguities on MONUC’s side. And I would like by my intervention to
contribute to dispelling any ambiguity that lies in the spirit of the
Congolese population.
Do you mean to say that the ambiguity comes from the side of the Congolese Government?
I
did not say that. I said that there are no ambiguities on MONUC’s side.
I did not say that they were ambiguities as regards the Congolese
Government. It is necessary to be very precise, it is important: we are
in this country because we are accepted by the Congolese Government.
Today,
we observe that we have become the scapegoat of the population in North
Kivu. We understand perfectly the sufferings of more than one million
displaced people, as does the international community which contributes
today to alleviate their sufferings. Therefore, our position in this
conflict was always very clear.
I
believe that if it is about the use of force, there are references,
because in the past MONUC was obliged to use force. What process are we
in today? We are in a process accepted by all parties, which is the
Goma Act of Engagement.
On his arrival to take part in the
work of the Goma Conference, the Special Representative of the
Secretary General in the DRC said: “It is not the peace agreements
which make peace. It is of course the will of the signatories which
makes peace.”
This will can sometimes be unsteady, and
therefore the international facilitation team was accepted by all the
parties to help to regulate the problems in difficult situations. It is
not simply by saying that it is necessary that MONUC applies chapter
VII that all the problems will be regulated.
Chapter VII
should only be applied when it is necessary under the conditions which
our mandate imposes on us, when the local population needs to be
protected.
MONUC was present at all that occurred since last
weekend in North Kivu, in all the hot spots, with the exception of when
the population, certainly incited by I do not know who, prevented them
from doing it.
MONUC’s presence in all the hot spots made it
possible to save the lives of the combatants because we interposed.
Consequently, we do not have the ambition to regulate all the problems
by the use of the force, but as a last resort we will not hesitate to
use it, as we have done so in the past.
Consequently,
the debate is not that of Chapter VII and the use of force. The debate
is that of the will of the signatories to stick to their engagements,
so that this country advances on the road to peace.
If peace
is wanted, the will must be there. But it’s missing at the moment. Why
are the parties withdrawing from the process and then again returning?
Why does the conflict persist when there is a well designed framework?
It is in this sense that I say: We, MONUC, are not ambiguous. In Sake, we showed that we were not ambiguous.
Last
week the Minister for Defence wondered about the role of MONUC, and
whether it was an observation or a peacekeeping mission. One has the
impression that the government does not understand sufficiently the
role of MONUC. Is MONUC simply here to observe the distress of the
population while doing nothing?
In fact the facts
speak for us. The whole of the actions which MONUC’s forces undertake
in the Kivus is well seen by the population. The spectrum of our
actions is extremely broad, from the use of robust force in Sake, to
the daily support which we bring to the population.
I
understand the difficulties at present. It is clear that when the
Minister goes on the ground and sees the distress of the population,
even he is affected by the situation.
We are affected just as much, as we have soldiers who live every day with these populations.
The
good questions which one can pose are: How to keep the Amani process on
track, how to manage it so that it leads to the expected results.
Can
one say that the warning shots fired today by MONUC in Nyanzale against
the CNDP are already the application of chapter VII, as claimed by
Minister Kalume?
One should not be mistaken. When a
mission is under chapter VII, the use of force is one of the means put
at its disposition to fulfill its mandate.
This use of force
is then regulated in a detailed way by rules of engagement, which are
given to the Force Commander who has the responsibility for its
implementation.
Unfortunately there were several occasions in
North Kivu when we had to use force. We are in an important process,
and it seemed to us that this process was in real danger.
This
is why we had to use force today, to give a strong signal to say that
we would not allow the CNDP to settle in Nyanzale. I repeat that if we
had not done this, the CNDP would still be in Nyanzale.
But why did MONUC use force after the CNDP had taken over FARDC positions?
But I must ask when and what positions. There were clashes, but it was the FARDC who regained their positions afterwards.
Consequently,
the Goma Acts of Engagement have at their foundation the respect of the
ceasefire which comprises several aspects: no confrontation, no
recruitment of new troops, and no redeployment.
Small
ceasefire violations become serious when they are in the direction of
the population. We had many small movements which until now did not
translate into confrontation.
It was only at the end of August
that we had confrontations. But at the end of the day, at the end of
these confrontations, before Nyanzale, who had gained ground?
It
was in fact the FARDC that were able to occupy a new position, the
FARDC that went to Mutabo. Consequently, one cannot say that the CNDP
were somewhere and that we did not react.
But in Nyanzale, we firmly reacted, to say this is not acceptable, because the process was in danger.
The DRC Government thinks that MONUC treats the CNDP on the same footing as them. What is your reaction?
MONUC
contributed its share to the adoption of the Goma Acts of Engagement.
And in these Acts, there are all the signatory parties and the
international facilitation team, which MONUC is part of.
It is
within this framework that we must find a peaceful solution to the
serious distress of the peoples of the Kivus, which is also the concern
of the international community.
Are you optimistic in relation to the continuation of the Amani Programme?
It
is not the first crisis that we have seen since our deployment in this
country. Each time we came out of a crisis, we came out stronger.
Undoubtedly
other crises await us, but we are still here because we are destined to
help these faithful and hard working people who have suffered so much.
As long as we are here, it’s because we believe, and therefore I’m
optimistic.