09.02.09 allAfrica: Rwanda Needs Internal Talks to End DRC War

What will the impact be of the capture of Nkunda? Some
Congolese politicians believe it will lead to the end of the war in the
east.

My view unfortunately is different from what some politicians are
saying… For the moment, what is the reason the Rwandese arrested
Laurent Nkunda? Is it because he was making war in the DRC? Or is it
because there are other reasons? Then you can see if the arrest can end
the war.

From our understanding … Nkunda [was] arrested because he refused
to obey the Rwandese agenda. What is that agenda? We are hearing from
the media that the Rwandese government signed an agreement with the
Congolese government to attack FDLA [Rwandese Hutu militias based in
the DRC]. That means to continue the war, but not between the Congolese
army and the CNDP of Laurent Nkunda. The Congolese army, Rwandese army
and Nkunda's rebels [could join together] to attack another group.

Seeing that, I feel there is no end of war. They have just changed
partners and continue the war. And who's paying [in] all this? It is
civilians. Because for civilians, a bullet coming from [the] government
army or rebel army is the same bullet. It is killing.

That's why I say for me [this] is another era of the war. It is just
another step in the… conflict. And my worry is that this time the war
will become even more violent than when it was against Nkunda. Because
Nkunda was a small group of people at the Rwandan border. [It] was in a
small area in Ruturo District.

But now we have the Rwandese army with more than 7,000 people with
sophisticated arms going deep into the DRC. That means when[they] start
chasing the FDLA, they will kill more people and they will destroy more
[of the] environment than what Nkunda was doing. That is my perception
of things and my worry at the same time.

You mentioned the cost of the war to civilians and on the
environment. What is being done to rehabilitate villages that were
destroyed by Nkunda?

You are asking the question in regards to the civilians' interests.
This question must be addressed by different actors in this conflict,
especially from the Congolese government. But also the international
community because, as you know, there is United Nations support in the
DRC with a special peacekeeping mission in the DRC.

To rehabilitate these villages destroyed by Nkunda [or the] other
rebellions in the DRC, we can ask first for justice for all those
victims of rape, victims of massacres. Justice can [achieved] in
different ways. The first way is to prosecute the authors of these
crimes. We can consider these war crimes or crimes against humanity. So
this person can be prosecuted before an international court or before
the Congolese courts.

Also, if we have this justice, victims can receive moral
rehabilitation because they will see that these people are punished. So
they can be happy just to hear that the guy who did bad things, the guy
who committed crimes, is punished.

The second way to rehabilitate these villages is to rebuild. In 1994
the UNHCR [United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees] under the UN
Security Council put enough pressure on the Zairian government of the
time to let refugees cross the border and to seek refuge in the DRC. In
1996, when those people were coming in, the international community was
calling different parties to protect civilians – which most of militias
did not do. And in 1999 the international community decided to create
the UN mission in the DRC.

So the UN can't stop there… Now we have MONUC [the UN mission in
the DRC]. We need to create a trust fund which can help to rebuild some
villages if even they can't rebuild many things in the villages. We can
build even some schools, bridges which can help villagers to cross from
one place to another place. [We can] rehabilitate some churches which
were burned… In these ways we can help villagers from these areas to
feel like they are members of the international community.

First we need justice. We need to prosecute the authors of all these
crimes. Secondly we need a sort of trust fund which can help to
rehabilitate social infrastructures like schools, churches, hospitals
or bridges which were broken during this war.

Do the people of North Kivu still have reason to fear violence in that area?

Of course… Laurent Nkunda was just one of these actors committing
crimes in the area… The arrest of Nkunda is not ending the war. It's
just changing strategies and alliances. The war is continuing.

What is next? What do you think Rwanda's government will do?

That is a very interesting question… Nkunda was not making war in
Rwanda. Nkunda was Rwanda's ally. He was prosecuted for war crimes and
crimes against humanity in the DRC. If he could be arrested in the DRC
we could say "now he will be prosecuted because we know why he was
arrested…'

Why do they arrest him now? It is just their political agenda and
they want to change their players on the ground. This has nothing to do
with [his] crimes in the DRC.

Where will Nkunda be tried? Will it go to the international courts?

As far as I know, Rwanda is not [party] to the ICC [International
Criminal Court]. Rwanda refused to sign… Rwanda can't surrender
Nkunda to the ICC unless it can give him to an international force
which can take him to the ICC. Can Rwanda surrender Nkunda to the
Congolese government? This is possible… because now Rwanda is saying
it is a Congolese partner. So it is possible to surrender Nkunda to the
Congolese government. If that happens, that means Nkunda will be
prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity because there is
an international arrest warrant against him issued by the Congolese
judiciary.

But I doubt [he will be surrendered to the DRC] because, as you
know, Nkunda was executing a Rwandese agenda. In 1994 when the regime
in Rwanda was coming from Uganda to take power in Kigali, Nkunda was in
the Rwandan army. He helped the regime to take power in Kigali.

In 1996 Nkunda crossed the border to start another war in Kinshasa
with the support of Rwanda. In 1998 he was there again starting another
war with the support of Rwanda. In 2002 and 2003 Nkunda was in Ituri…
He was in Kisangani 2003 when Rwanda was fighting against Uganda in the
DRC. So if they take him before court in the DRC, Nkunda [could] talk
too much about what he was doing with Rwanda and it's not good for
[the] Rwandan regime.

What are the implications of Nkunda's arrest for the wider Great Lakes region?

There are two ways that we can see this. The first is… [that there
could be] new clashes between Rwandese forces and the FDLR, another
Rwandan rebel movement in the DRC. This means you will have more people
internally displaced. You will also have people crossing borders, going
to Burundi, going to Tanzania, going to Uganda and other places within
the DRC. This is the first implication…

The second is [that] maybe the government of Rwanda can say, "We
don't like to fight, we are arresting Nkunda and we will negotiate with
the FDLR." That will be the best way to end the `war in the region, if
the government in Rwanda can decide to start political talks with the
Rwandese rebels who are in the DRC.

If there are no talks, [then] the war will continue and it will be
devastating for the region because I think that the regime in Kigali is
from the minority tribe and the majority of Hutus are mostly supporting
the FDLR. If [Rwanda] kills those who are in the DRC, others will
emerge from inside Rwanda.

What will the impact of his arrest have on his own group and other rebel factions?

[Nkunda's] movement is split in two. The one part of the movement is
led by Bosco Ntaganda, another criminal who is wanted by the ICC. There
is an arrest warrant against him. The other one is led by Laurent
Nkunda with the support of Commader Mirindi. This split is weakening
the movement and also Ntaganda's side has said they will join the DRC
army. So the movement is weak for the moment.

What is the way forward?

For the people's interests, we can suggest that the government of
Rwanda surrender Nkunda to the government of the DRC for prosecution.
First step.

The second step the government of Rwanda needs to take is [starting]
political talks within Rwanda to end the war, because within the DRC
there is not [a] group fighting the government of the DRC and there is
not [a] group fighting against another group within the DRC.

The groups who are fighting are rebels from Rwanda and the official
army from Rwanda. To end this war, we need the actors to go back to
Rwanda and negotiate.

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